were lost and to honor all the efforts of the many heroes who we saw standing up after the explosions to try to save more lives and who did save lives. our coverage continues. this does it for this edition of 360. and something you'll never hear in new york, but we're and something you'll never hear in new york, but we're going to play it for you because we did tonight. good evening, everyone. i'm erin burnett out front live.

tonight we have new evidence in the boston bombings. we are seeing now evidence from the debris of the deadly bombings in which three were killed and more than 180 wounded. we'll start with the photos from our affiliate waga. this is the remains of a pressure cooker device. clearly it has the markings of a pressure cooker container, and obviously it is extremely mangled. not even a chance to look at this. i'll flip it over. let's go to the second. it's possible to see the remains of the explosive device on the ground. this is from further away. from this angle, there are a couple things we want to highlight. there is a black strap around it and you can make out some numerals printed on the side. let's talk a little more about those numerals and go in a little closer here. this is a close-up of the device. you can actually see the markings of a popular manufacturer or serial number of some sort. it appears to be the words "gas

electric" but that's just our reading of it, obviously not a scientific analysis. it's twist and had bent but obviously the numbers are still visible. the fourth photo shows more twisted metal and what appears to be more numbers on the outside of the casing. the question is whether these numbers could be significant in determining the origination of this. while you would think the explosive device would have been destroyed in the blast, but obviously investigators have a lot of information here possibly to work with. now, in terms of where the device was stored, this is all that's left of a black bag. it's been described as a knapsack. it's been shredded, obviously no longer intact, but it will still be analyzed by the fbi and that's the bag they believe where the pressure cooker was stored. let me show you one more photo. this appears to be the remains of metal pellets, the ball bearings you've heard those people talk about. some of the tiny pellets look like they melted together. authorities have also now recovered a partial circuit board which they say may have been used to detonate the bombs. all of this evidence, these pictures, all these pieces, the

circuit board itself are now in the hands of the fbi. and this new evidence that we're showing you tonight could provide identification clues, like dna. or those serial numbers that you're seeing parts of, perhaps that could help investigators pinpoint who manufactured it, where it went in terms of the distributor, maybe the point of sale. there are also new photos tonight from our affiliate waga that showed a mysterious package near the second bomb site and before it exploded. in the first picture, a light-colored bag next to a mailbox. the question is, was that black metal bag on the outside? we don't know. but that second picture that was blown out due to the carnage there, there is no sight of the bag.

i want to emphasize, they said it was a black nylon bag, and the one you see there is obviously light colored. we do know the point of detonation, though, was close to where that bag was located. we also know, though, that the fbi says, again, that those explosives were in a different colored bag. so the question is, was the dark one inside the light one? we're also learning more about the people killed in the blasts. an eight-year-old child, a little boy, a 29-year-old woman and a woman grad student from china from boston university. we're going to have much more on their stories. but i want to start with the latest in the investigation and the new photos that we just went through of the explosive device. drew griffin is in boston live for us tonight. drew, what do you know? >> reporter: well, all day today we've been getting more and more pieces of the puzzle, if you will, erin, on the exact bomb devices. i'll let you know up front there are no suspects. they don't know if this was

domestic or a foreign terroristic type of attack. they don't have any intelligence about who did this. but they seem to be piecing together pretty good now just how these explosive devices were put together, how they were placed, and are beginning to understand how they may have gone off. it appears to be two twin bombs placed in nylon bags. pressure cookers were used. john king's sources telling him that the devices were very similar. earlier in the day, we heard from the special agent in charge from the fbi who called one of the bombs possibly a pressure cooker. now we're seeing the release of these photos. and what those photos are, they come from a bulletin that is sent nationwide, erin, to bomb experts all across the country and to fbi agents and other officials all across the country for a specific reason. had you had any cases, have you

seen anything like this? have you come upon any kind of scene where this was a pressure cooker involved in any kind of detonation? anything that would spark a lead or a tip in this case. you mentioned that they'll track down serial numbers and possibly where these were purchased. that is a lot of legwork to go through, erin, but if you could get a tip, if you could find somebody who knows of some group, some person, some anybody who had been experimenting with pressure cookers, that could be an invaluable tip. >> you talk about this and the paths they're going down, but as you said, there are very few leads at this point. how are investigators handling that, the frustration, and as you describe it, sort of there's so much information that this is searching for a needle in an extensive haystack. >> that is true. i was very, very critical of how slow this apparently was going. earlier on your broadcast this

evening, i was chastised a bit in the law enforcement community and were progressing as we moved along, but you have to keep in mind, as their looking for these clues, any single one of those clues could lead them immediately to a suspect. a thumbprint on the bomb that they're recreating down in quantico, any tip, any certain surveillance shot or even a photograph that somebody who was at the scene may have taken of their loved ones as they were snapping a picture near the finish line and now notice there is a guy in the background perhaps putting a black bag somewhere. that could be just the one tip that would solve this case. they have extensive manpower on it. there is no way they're getting frustrated this early in the game, but i will tell you, they are in a real urgent hunt to find this person and solve this crime.

>> certainly the first 24 or 48 hours, so crucial in that. thanks to drew. let's talk about what authorities can learn from this new evidence. i want to bring in the former fbi assistant director tom fuentes, and don barelli, cfo of the firm that specializes in security and counterterrorism. tom, we'll start with you. we obviously have these photos. how significant is that for the fbi? you see the underwriters laboratories logo on some of those, you see serial numbers. is this going to be a big development for them? >> well, it is a development, certainly, erin, but we don't know if the company actually recorded those numbers more than just when the date of manufacture at the factory. they may not have recorded what retail store they were sent to or what date they actually got shipped and sold at the retail store. we just don't know that. they may have, but we don't know that yet. as far as the devices, obviously

they'll be searched for possible forensic evidence on them. there could still be fingerprints or dna, skin particles, hair of the person that put the bomb together, put the device together. and as you've seen with those pressure cookers, almost everything that is put into a bomb is bent, twisted, burned but not completely destroyed. so you see the pressure cookers are mangled, but they're still pressure cookers. you see much of the shrapnel that may fuse together, but you can still tell what it is. the wiring, the time or a circuit board. many of the components are going to be scattered, obviously. they could be blocks away and found on rooftops, but they will be able, to a certain extent, much like an aircraft that crashes when they go and put the pieces back together and try and determine what happened, how it was assembled in the first place, they would know in an aircraft. but in a bomb, how is it assembled and what happened when it went off? >> and don, what is the significance of this?

when you look at this you have all these numbers, and to tom's point, a serial number may only get you to where it was manufactured. you may only get no luckier than that. but there could be hair? >> there could be hair, there could be dna, there could be other evidence. there might be things that may not seem useful now but could be useful down the road. for example, they may find a wire that was part of the firing mechanism that was cut. when you cut wire with a pair of wire cutters, we call it tool marks in the fbi, and that could be evidence. so maybe now they have a piece -- >> it tells you what you cut with? >> exactly. so when you have a tool and you cut a piece of wire, it leaves almost like a unique print on that wire. so maybe a week from now, they'll do a search warrant. they might find wire cutters. they can tell if those wire cutters cut that particular wire. they look at it under a microscope because it leaves very small, unique marks. so they may be able to trace a particular tool to a particular piece of wire.

so something may be really insignificant now but be hugely significant a week from now. >> that's pretty interesting. and tom, what's your take on that? i know you're seeing even if there's not dna, there's not fingerprints, there's other things. don is talking about the wire fingerprint. >> don is exactly right. there are so many different little pieces that could be significant later. actually, going back to drew griffin's point about some of the lack of information, the authorities will not put out more than they need to in a case like this for many reasons. one is from experience, a lot of people will call in and make false claims that they did this. and so the authorities, if they know certain aspects about how the bomb was put together, when they question an individual, they can rule them out if they're making false claims, if they don't know how it was really put together or how it was wrapped or packaged or delivered. so in many cases, not every detail is revealed just to sift out the people that call in and drive law enforcement investigators crazy during an

intensive, important investigation like this, so that's another issue of the type of information getting put out. >> don, let me ask you about the pictures we've been showing here of the before and after, of the light-colored bag next to a mailbox and then afterwards, we've shown the blurred picture where the bag is gone. obviously it's blurred because people are injured. but one thing that we noticed from this is the mailbox doesn't appear to be damaged. that was leaning against a mailbox. does that mean that bag is taken out of consideration? >> i don't think anything is taken out of consideration at this point. i think it will take more photographs to be able to analyze and, you know, potentially if there is some videotape and they can use some forensic video analysis to slow it down and look and see exactly what happened, i think it's very difficult to tell just from the pictures that i've seen where kind of static photos one after the other, but if they're able to kind of put that in context with some motion, we might shed

some more light on that. >> all right. thank you very much. don, tom, appreciate it. don is going to be back with us later in the hour to go through some of the new pictures that we have and sort of show you on each what might really be standing out and what might provide a break in this case. still on "out front," one guest says with every hour that passes, the bomb is getting harder and harder to locate. we are more than 24 hours after this. the latest on the search and whether it's getting harder, next. plus, the ones who were lost and the voices of those who loved them. a very strange reminder in the days after 9/11, an attempted chemical attack on a member of congress. we are live tonight and we're back in a moment. [ female announcer ] what if the next big thing, isn't a thing at all? it's lots of things. all waking up. ♪ becoming part of the global phenomenon we call the internet of everything. ♪ trees will talk to networks will talk to scientists about climate change.

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welcome back to a special live edition of "out front." it is 16 past the hour eastern. it is more than 32 hours after two explosions went off at the boston marathon. that's a crucial time as authorities search for a suspect. joining me now, what the investigation missed and why it still matters, and an official of homeland security. andrew, let me start with you now as we talk that we're more than 30 hours after this event. the chairman of the homeland security committee was telling me tonight that the first 36 hours are the most crucial. people may think that. is it true, though? is it getting harder and harder to find the person who did this? >> it's certainly true, and the oklahoma city bombing investigation shows this very clearly, that the longer time goes by, it gives an opportunity for perpetrators to get away, it gives an opportunity for people to destroy evidence, it muddies people's eyewitness testimony because the further away the events took place, they can say yes, i saw that person.

the harder it is to ensure that identifications are correct. so yes, absolutely, time is of the essence. just because we don't know anything doesn't mean that they aren't close to cracking the case or making a major break. again, to take the analogy with what happened off the oklahoma city bombing, it turned out that they were hot on the tail of timothy mcveigh and the nichols brothers within about this time frame, somewhere between 36 and 48 hours after the event. unfortunately, then, some of that information leaked out into the media. it tipped off terry and james nichols to the fact that the feds were after them. in this case, the fact that no information seems to be leaking out except what is being given out about the pieces that have been found at the crime scene is an encouraging sign, the lid is being kept on the investigation, leaks are not occurring, and that may well help the investigation get to their goal faster. >> i see you nodding at that.

drew griffin was just reporting, the media has had a frustration and they've had these press conferences with a lot of people speaking and basically no information coming out of them. >> yeah. and you really have to weigh that calculation of protecting the investigation and also communicating to the american people about what you do know and instilling confidence that the investigation is progressing. and i think that it was said very well, that we should take some confidence that we're not seeing a lot of leaks come out of this investigation right now, and i think it's important for your viewers to understand that we should all be ready to show a little patience in this. this is a very big crime scene. there is a lot of pieces that became unrecognizable because of the blast, and it may be a while before we know a lot of answers on this. >> when we hear the fbi, one of the things they said today was, look, we need you. we need you if you had pictures and you if you had video. they obviously want to get as much information as they can.

it makes complete sense, but is that anything that concerns you, that they're looking at what they have and saying, we don't know if it's in there. >> it may reveal that there are gaps in what they know right now and what the photographs and what the video documentation are showing. but look, the public are first multipliers, and there is one study that suggests that up to 80% of the attempted terrorist plots that have been uncovered in the last ten years have been due to tips from the public or law enforcement. right here in times square just a few years ago, it was a hot dog vendor who noticed something suspicious and alerted law enforcement to the suspicious vehicle that led to a prevented terrorist attack. >> one that had a pressure cooker in it, actually, at least as our understanding is. andrew, what does this say to you, though, about the person who did this? obviously it could be people that did this, that there was no tip. you as a lone wolf know this could happen and it could get

through the cracks, but does this show a person who doesn't interact with a lot of people, that they might have been a loner, that there wasn't a lot of tips? >> we absolutely don't know if this is a domestic attack or if it's foreign. one thing i can tell you is that they have kind of a cynicism about trying to put together a plot involving several people. one of the members of the radical far right told me a couple years ago in our movement being an informant or ratting out your friends is pretty much a career path. so there is a great deal of suspicion. there is a tendency to believe that if you do it yourself, there is a chance that it will succeed. if you do it with others, almost certainly the plot will get rumbled. so if it is somebody from the radical far right, that may well

be their thinking. they were devastating devices that detonated, but they were relatively simple to make, unlike the oklahoma city bomb which was very big, very devastating, there had to be a degree of certainty and confidence in how it was built. these are things that once you know how to do it, it's relatively simple to put together. the other point i wanted to make, just to come back to one other thing about the success or otherwise of the investigation, yes, it's true that the public can be tremendously useful, but one real acid test, and again looking at the historical record of past investigations, this becomes very important, is that those leads to be sorted, they need to be evaluated, they need to be looked at, and that can only happen efficiently with this tremendous pressure bearing down on the investigators to find a culprit. that can only happen efficiently if all law enforcement agencies are working together harmoniously. in the past, unfortunately, the fbi, the local police, they've been at each other's throats, not trusting each other, leaking things in order to thwart each other. let's hope on the inside it looks as harmonious as it looks on the outside, because that

will be key. >> and shawn, we talked about yesterday some were incorrect but some were leaks that they have people of interest, people they were talking to. one of them ended up being a saudi arabian national who had absolutely nothing to do with it. but, of course, it was unfortunate that that leaked out. he had nothing to do with it, and then it's like, why would you apprehend that person, just because of their nationality? is that perhaps where they're being even more cautious now? >> one of the things you can count on during a situation like this is that much of the information coming in in those first few moments are going to prove to be inaccurate. it's wise that people doing these press conferences are so cautious with how they speak, because they don't want to rest on assumptions that may later turn out to be untrue and box themselves in from a prosecuterial standpoint or investigative standpoint. it is unfortunate that some

things that leaked out about this may have led people to presume the identity of the individual. >> they're so eager to have this person did it that they jump on it. >> that's right. and the fact we have these photos right now, i think this is lending to what will hopefully be a resolution to this. >> all right. well, thanks very much. we appreciate it. shawn and andrew, thank you for your time. now another breaking story, ricin sent to a senator. ricin sent to a senator was tested positive in three tests. it was intercepted in the capitol's off-site mail facility which was set up after anthrax was sent. dana bash has more details. >> erin, cnn can now report that the envelope addressed to senator wicker did test positive for ricin at the actual lab. so there was a more formal and reliably positive test beyond

the initial test conducted in the field. that's according to the senate in sergeant arms terry gaynor. we can also report that the markings on the envelope were not outwardly suspicious. there was no return address and it was postmarked from memphis, tennessee, which is not far from the senator's home state of mississippi. they have closed postal facilities for two or three days while testing continues and law enforcement investigates. in a briefing tonight, senators were reminded to warn their employees in being very vigilant in handling and processing all mail that comes to their offices in the capitol and also in their district offices back in their home states. now, the very first stop for capitol mail, we should tell our viewers, is actual the not on the capitol complex, it's at off-site facilities, and that began back in 2001 after a couple senate offices received letters that were laced with

anthrax. a question people might have is how much of a threat is ricin? ricin is toxic and lethal but only if it's injected. that's why they consider it category b or a lower threat agent as opposed to, say, anthrax, which is much more deadly. erin? >> thank you, dana. you just heard her talk about senator wicker received a protective detail. earlier i spoke to the chairman of the homeland security committee, and i asked him about that added security. >> i think security detail would be appropriate in light of the events, obviously. i think a lot of members of congress have threats, and this one is certainly one to be taken seriously. i don't have any background. i know roger well. he's a very nice guy. i don't know why anybody would want to do this to him. >> that was the chairman of the homeland security committee. "out front" next, we're going to go through the before and after photo of the blast area. what authorities were looking for this those images. plus the images we have in the past couple hours of all the shards of the pressure cooker. we're going to go through them one by one and see what they show us.

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a moment of silence was held tonight before the start of the boston red sox game in cleveland, and it was a meaningful moment, so we want to show it to you. >> in a moment of silence for the victims of yesterday's tragedy at the boston marathon, and while our teams compete on the field, we all stand as one with the people of boston during this time of grief and pain and express our support for their healing and recovery in the days

ahead. please join us now in a moment of silence. thank you all very much. >> and on any other day, one of baseball's greatest rivalries, the yankees versus the red sox, they usually have pretty vile things to say about one another. but as the country comes together in the face of tragedy, the yankees stood with boston. >> to mourn those lives lost, president obama directed by proclamation this morning that flags be flown at half staff. now, please join us in a moment of silent prayer for those that lost their lives, for the injured and for all of their families, friends and athletes

and all the citizens of boston that were affected by this horrible tragedy. thank you. as an additional tribute to the boston community tonight, we will play the song "sweet caroline," a fenway park tradition, at the end of the third inning. ♪ but then i know it's brewing strong wasn't the spring and spring became the summer ♪ ♪ sweet caroline good times never seemed so good ♪ >> i thought that was my nephew and hearing that song, it has been a fenway park tradition for years played whether the red sox were winning or losing. a vigil was held in support

of the richard family. eight-year-old martin richard died in the blast. his six-year-old sister had one leg amputated. she may lose the other. she is fighting for that leg tonight. his mother suffered a brain injury. steven lynch is in that neighborhood. he is a long-time friend of the richards. i asked him to describe the youngest victim of the attack. >> you know, he's a nice combination of his mom and dad, i have to say. usually one kid looks like the mom or the dad. he was half richard and half o'brien. he looked a lot like his mom, had her smile. he was an innocent kid, just very well behaved, very courteous, you know. just a joy, just a joy. he was just a good kid, loved -- just loved the simplicity of

life, and, you know, brought great joy to this neighborhood. you know, had great friends from school and, you know, the sporting programs here very widely known by a lot of these kids, and i must say desperately, desperately missed by his mom and dad and his uncles and aunts and grandparents. terrible, terrible loss. >> an unimaginable loss for those who are watching this from afar. i know, congressman, that you have known the family for many, many years. his mother denise is in the hospital, and his sister, a dancer, i know, who has lost a leg and fighting now to be able to keep her other leg. i know you had a chance to visit them. how are they doing?

>> well, like i say, for both bill and denise, they're doing far better than anyone could reasonably expect under the circumstances. you know, it's a testament to the strength of the human spirit, i think, for what they've gone through. you know, physically, you know, denise is going through a lot now. her challenges, but her focus is totally on her kids and her husband. and, you know, young janie, she's not out of the woods yet, but with the prayers of so many people, we are hopeful. you know, i think it's indicative of the type of people that they are. i spent about four or five hours last night and into the early morning hours this morning with bill over there, and i asked him if he wanted me to convey anything, any messages, and he said he wanted to make sure that the first responders knew how

much he appreciated their heroic actions to save his daughter's life. he said that it seemed like a matter of seconds after the explosion that they were there. and he also -- he's also been hearing from the people behind me, his neighbors from dorchester, people across the city, people across the state of massachusetts and across the country, and he just wanted them to know. he wanted america to know that their love and support at this time helped him carry his burden. and he was comforted by that. so, you know, i think he's drawing on his faith right now, you know. no family should have to carry that burden. what what the richard family is carrying right now, but they're grateful for all the kindness and support they've received,

and they ask for our prayers. >> it's amazing and humbling that the words he wanted to convey are words of thanks and gratitude. it is incredible given the burden that he has. i know that every person watching this, their thoughts, their prayers will be with him and his wife and little daughter tonight. thank you so much, congressman. >> thank you, erin. god bless. another boston area family is reeling after learning that their loved one died in the bombings. krystle campbell was 29 years old. she was a restaurant manager described as general and vivacious. her parents were told that she had survived and then went to the hospital and discovered it was a tragic case of mistaken identity. >> reporter: krystle campbell's mother patty so overcome by

grief as she stood on her front porch, each word was a struggle. >> we are heartbroken at the death of our daughter, krystle marie. she was a wonderful person. everybody that knew her loved her. >> a family spokesman finally had to read her statement and say what she couldn't. >> everyone who knew her loved her. she was sweet and kind and friendly, always smiling. she worked so hard at everything she did. >> krystle campbell's story a tragic case of mistaken identity. the 29-year-old had gone to the marathon with a friend. both were caught in the first explosion. her parents say doctors told them their daughter survived, and they were trying to save her leg. but when campbell's parents were finally allowed to see her, they discovered it wasn't her at all, but her friend. >> it just doesn't make any sense. >> what kind of daughter was she, ma'am? >> she was the best.

i couldn't ask for a better daughter. >> campbell, described by sweet and kind by those here, at the restaurant where she worked. >> you would like her immediately. she was one of the hardest workers we had, and i think that's what our crew here remembered most about her, she would get in the trenches and work next to you. she wasn't afraid to get her hands dirty, so she was a very popular manager. >> a devastating mix-up leaving a grief-stricken family wondering how it all could have happened. campbell's grandmother said the body was identified here at massachusetts general hospital. a spokeswoman says this hospital has no record of a krystle campbell. erin? >> thanks to jason. and more of our live coverage next. we're going to show you the images of the bombs used in boston. we're going to go through them

with a former chief of the joint terrorism task force and find out exactly what each of these pictures might be telling investigators. photo by photo, we're going to analyze it, next. hey aleigh.

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so who planted the bombs at the boston marathon and when did they do it? that's what authorities are trying to determine and it is a crucial question as they try to find out the person responsible. the boston police commissioner ed davis says two bomb sweeps were done prior to the explosions and obviously neither

one of those detected anything unusual. tom has more on the crucial window of time, the window of time that may be key to solving this entire case. let me start here, tom, by asking you what investigators are zeroing in on here when it comes to the time. >> well, they're really focusing on three hours right around the end of the course. let me bring in the course and let's talk about what we mean right here. there was a final security sweep done along the course one hour before the elite runners finished. so they went along the course and they cleared it here one hour before the top runners came in. then two hours after that, that's when this started happening. overall we have a total of three hours period of time here that there was a first blast here near the finish line and a short distance off, we had the second blast 12 seconds later. so let me rotate the map around here so you can look right down the racecourse here, and i'll talk about what they're looking at. one of the things they're focusing on is this side of the race course. erin, this path down the middle higher is very hard to cross in a big race like this, so in all

likelihood, wherever the bomber or bombers came from, it was likely on this side of the path and they weren't able to cross. that's why both bombs were on the same side. what are they looking for? anybody who saw anything, and really, really saw something that mattered. for example, this picture has been exciting a lot of attention because of that package sitting alongside the fence right there. that's near the site of one of the blasts. the question would be, from investigators, did anybody photograph something? did any security cameras pick up someone carrying that package or another package that fits the description that they're after here? that's what they want, erin, and they're saying there is a difference between a witness and somebody who just heard something. they want to hear from everyone, but the real grail here, the thing they're after is someone who can say, yes, on this street or standing along here, i saw this person and they did this, and that specifically could be connected. erin? >> tom, let me ask you about something else that's unique about this kind of an event, a marathon, which in the modern era, everybody who is running

wears a tracker that wirelessly transmits exactly every millisecond of where they are on the actual marathon route. is that important? >> yeah, it is important, in fact, because when you run any of these races these days you wear a tiny chip of some sort. it will tell racing organizers where you are. it's just for running the race. why did this matter? will these runners being tracked electronically be able to say they saw something? probably not. but they can tell investigators where their family and friends were. so if investigators say, we have a witness down here who saw a guy with a black bag, and we have a witness down here who saw a guy with a black bag, this is an almost unheard of tool. they can then go through the runner database and say to the runners, were your family and friends in between here? how can we reach out to them and ask them if they saw it? normally in a big event like this, all those witnesses are dispersed and the police are at their mercy as to whether or not

they come back in. in this case they know how to reach out and get to them. that could really be a huge benefit to this process, erin. >> and as investigators search for a break in the case, there is new evidence tonight that may be the best lead yet. cnn and waga in atlanta have obtained new images of the explosive device that killed three and wounded more than 1 80 others. but is this new evidence going to break the case? that is the question. "outfront" tonight, don barelli, former fbi member of the task force. i want to go through these pictures and see if you can get a sense of how useful these might be. >> sure. >> the first one i want to show is you can see the explosive device on the ground and what looks basically to be a black strap around it. what would they be looking at in this picture? >> they're going to be looking at several things. number one, the device itself. they'll be looking for any kind of markings that might indicate where it was manufactured and these type of things so they can trace it back.

the other things that is significant about that picture, you see that black strap. what is the purpose of that black strap? was it used to carry the device, to help carry it, or possibly to secure something to the outside, like potentially that's where the timing device might have been affixed to the outside of the container. just -- you know, these are all possibilities. i'm just kind of scatter shooting here a little bit, but these are certainly things they'll look at to see if that was a possibility. >> right. at least this gives you a chance to ask some of those questions that we didn't have before. let me show you another one that's a little closer because you said they would be looking for identification points. when you look closer, you see numbers, you see a logo underwriters laboratory, but these could be numbers that indicate maybe where it came from? >> anything with numbers is good. that's going to give investigators at least a point to start to backtrack and figure out where this particular pressure cooker was made and then from there, where was it

sent, how many were sent, and try to do that chain of events following that piece of equipment from its manufacturer to the ultimate retail sale. will they get that far? who knows. but sometimes you get these breaks in investigations when you need them, and so let's just hope that they will be able to at least get this particular pressure cooker maybe even to a particular chain of stores, for example. it could be very helpful. >> this was bought at sears or this was something else. >> right. >> now let me show you the photo we have of all that's left of the black bag. as you know, investigators have said, well, we know it was a black nylon bag and they said that very early on. now we've got pictures of the shredded backpack with the white on the inside. when you look at this, what does your eye see as a trained eye? >> it looks like a mangled bag or a backpack. there is one in a million, but i go back to the investigation in 2009 where we did find a whole closetful of backpacks. they were intact so we had an

advantage, but we were able to take those backpacks to the manufacturer, and then from there, they were able to take us through the chain of events to say where those backpacks ultimately -- >> so they actually traced from manufacturer to point of sale. >> right. so when you think sometimes there is no way that you'll be able to figure this out, you would be surprised. sometimes detailed records, especially now with the sku numbers and all that, you can get lucky breaks on things. >> the digital tracking. and one last picture appears to be remains melted together, whether it's the ball bearings, the small pellets, what might have been the guts of the device. is that what you think that is? >> it looks to be. it's tough from that photograph, but it looks to be, and again, they'll take those and they'll compare those pellets with the pellets that were found on the scene that were pulled out of people's legs and so forth, and then they'll compare those pellets to -- they'll take them

to the laboratory and the fbi laboratory, the tdac where they analyze all these bombs. they've cataloged so much of these stuff where they've compared it with other devices, so they'll look and see if these pellets or ball bearings match other devices. maybe they can figure out where they were manufactured, too, and then start that whole process over again. >> don barelli, thank you very much. as we said, former member of the joint terrorism task force which, of course, now has taken the lead on this investigation. "outfront" next, the victims.

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